Collaborative Problem Solving with Curtis

After spending time with Ross Greene and learning about Collaborative Problem Solving, I have learned more about how to work with children to solve problems together.

Here are the three steps that I tend to follow when collaboratively solving problems with children:

1. Empathy and collect information

2. Define the problems

3. Invitation for solutions

The goal of the empathy step is to gather information so as to achieve the clearest possible understanding of the kid's concern or perspective on a given unsolved problem.

The goal of defining the problems is to make it clear to everyone that both the adult's and child's problems need to be addressed.

The goal of the invitation for solutions is to work together to come up with solutions that are mutually agreeable and durable.

During the empathy step, it's the adult's responsibility to be proactive, specific and neutral. The Empathy step needs to be free of:

• judgements


• defensiveness


• solutions


• hypothesizing


• theorizing


• story telling

To do this we need to engage in a conversation (Plan B) with children that starts with an observation about an unsolved problem ("I've noticed that..."), along with an initial inquiry ("What's up?) It's very important to note that the unsolved problem needs to come from the Assessment of Lagging skills and Unsolved Problems (ALSUP). Here's an example:

Using the Assessment of Lagging Skills and Unsolved Problems, Curtis's parents identified one of his lagging skills as:

Difficulty managing emotional response to frustation so as to think rationally.

This is code for he's explosive.

After identifying the lagging skill, it's important to identify a highly specific example of when this occurs. This is called an unsolved problem:

Curtis experiences difficulties waking up in the morning and going to school.

There are three steps to Collaborative Problem Solving, and to kick off step one (empathy), I frame my question like this:

We've noticed (insert unsolved problem). What's up?

If after asking this question you get the feeling like the kid has no idea what you are talking about, then it's possible that the unsolved problem that you have identified is not specific enough, or that you've identified a problem that is not relevant to the child. If they becomes defensive, there's a chance that you are not being neutral or judgment free.

Here's an example of a Plan B meeting I had with Curtis and his parents. Because Curtis's parents were so new to Collaborative Problem Solving, they felt more comfortable with me taking the lead with Curtis. They watched and learned. Here's how it went:

"Hi Curtis, thanks for joining us. Do you mind if we talk together?"

"Ok."

"I know that sometimes teachers do more talking at you than talking with you, but I was hoping that you might talk almost as much as me during this chat."

"Ok."

"Would you agree that things could be better with your family?"

"Yes, definitely."

"Curtis, we've noticed that you've been having difficulty getting up in the morning and going to school."

Before I could even finish my sentence, Curtis said, "Oh, yeah. Totally." This confirmed to me that we did an excellent job identifying a relevant unsolved problem.

"What's up?"

Curtis looked down and tried to sink into his chair.

I waited.

I waited.

And I waited.

Wait time is always important. It's been said before that teaching is mostly about listening and learning is mostly about talking -- too many teachers talk too much -- myself included. If it takes an adult a couple seconds to think of a response, then it will likely take some kids five times as long. However, with saying all that, Curtis wouldn't look up, and he didn't appear to be close to saying anything, so I chose to break the silence.

"When do you have a hard time waking up?"

"All the time. I'm not a morning person. Neither is mom."

We laughed. Which was really important because you could feel some of the anxiety and apprehensiveness in the room retreat. Most of it belonged to Curtis, some belonged to his parents.

"So Tuesday mornings are just as bad as Saturday mornings?"

"Oh, no. Not at all."

"What's the difference?"

"Saturday's are fine. Tuesdays are bad."

"Why"

"School."

"School?"

"School."

"What about school?"

"I don't know. You know. It's school."

"Pretend I was home-schooled and I don't know about school."

"School sucks."

"School sucks?"

"Yeah. You know."

"Tell me about it."

Silence.

"When you said school sucks, what was the first thing you thought of."

"My teacher. Mrs. Smith."

"Does school always suck?"

"No."

"Tell me about a time when Mrs. Smith is cool."

"If I'm sitting quietly, in my desk, doing my work."

"Tell me about a time when Mrs. Smith is not cool."

"Pretty much the opposite. When the class is loud and not doing their work."

"What does that look like?"

"I'm sitting in my desk and I stop working and I play with my pencil."

"You play with your pencil?"

"Yeah, kinda like this." He started fiddling with a pencil.

"Oh, you do those cool pencil tricks that I can't do?"

We laughed. "Yeah, I guess I try."

"So when you do that, you get in trouble?"

"Yeah, I get ticks."

"You get ticks?"

"Yeah, Mrs. Smith gives you a tick."

"Mrs. Smith gives you a tick?"

"Yeah, she puts a tick on the board. Each tick is a minute."

"Each tick is a minute?"

"Yeah, for every tick, you get one minute of detention."

"So if you're sitting in your desk, playing with your pencil and not doing your work, you get a tick?"

"Sometimes."

"Tell me about when you get a tick."

"I'm not doing my work and Mrs. Smith yells, 'GET OUT'." While he said this, he took his pointer finger and made an aggressive circle through the air and pointed it at the imaginary classroom door. He was re-enacting how Mrs. Smith would throw him out of the classroom door as if he clung to the end of her pointer finger.

I replicated his finger wag and said, "so she would say 'out', like this." I made sure to whisper 'out'.

"No, she yells."

I replicated his finger wag and said, "so she would yell 'OUT', like this." I made sure to yell 'out.'

"Yeah."

"Then what?"

"Then I go out in the hallway."

"Tell me about that."

"She yells at me some more."

"What does she say?"

Silence. He looked down. So I waited.

And I waited

Again, despite my best intentions of giving him time to think, it didn't look like he was able to say anything, so I asked, "do you tune her out?"

"No, I hear her, it's just that it's really embarrassing."

"Why is it embarrassing?"

"She's yelling at me."

"In private?"

"Depends. When she kicks me out, it's in front of the whole class. When we are in the hallway, it might be just her and me, but sometimes others walk by."

"Does that bother you?"

"Yes. It's embarrassing."

"Are you more embarrassed if this happens in front of your friends?"

"No, it could be anyone."

"In front of a stranger might be as bad as in front of your best friend?"

"Yes. It's just embarrassing. I don't like it."

"So she yells at you in the hallway. Then what?"

"I go back into class and do my work."

"Do you get a tick for getting kicked out?"

"Sometimes."

"How often do you get a tick?"

Pause. "About once a week."

"More than once a week?"

"No. I don't think so. I get a tick about once a week. Timmy and Kayla get more ticks than me."

"How often do they get ticks?"

"Like once a day. They get loud and Mrs. Smith yells. I don't like all the yelling. Plus we all get detention."

"You all get detention? So you get ticks to?"

"No it's their ticks, but each tick is one minute of detention for the whole class."

"Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. If Timmy and Kayla get ticks, the whole class loses their recess."

"Yeah." The colour in Curtis's face told us almost everything we needed to know about how he felt about this.

"Curtis, do you remember how we started this whole discussion."

"No, not really."

"I asked you about your difficulties with waking up to get to school. Now I'm wondering if all this stuff that we've been talking about might have something to do with your difficulties."

"Yeah, it totally does. When I'm going to bed the night before school, I have to take my Melatonin for my anxiety. I have a hard time getting to sleep because I'm thinking about everything that I know is going to happen at school the next day."

"When you say anxiety, what do you mean?"

"I get butterflies in my stomach like when you are in a car going up and down hills really quickly."

"When do you get them?"

"The night before school."

"At supper time?"

"No, just before I have to go to sleep. I don't want to go to sleep because I know I have to go to school when I wake up."

"Ok, let's pretend we are in a perfect world and somehow it is true that Mrs. Smith doesn't use the tick system anymore. Would you get butterflies the night before?"

"We need the tick system to control how loud the classroom gets."

"Ok, let's keep the tick system, but this time, if Timmy or Kayla get ticks for being loud, let's pretend that doesn't affect you. You don't get detention for their ticks. Are the butterflies gone?"

"No."

"Ok. Why is that?"

"I would still be worried that I would get a tick and still lose my recess. I really need my breaks at school. I love going outside and playing baseball with my friends. I really need my breaks from sitting in class all day."

"Ok. Let's pretend you couldn't get detention for the ticks. Are the butterflies gone?"

"No."

"Ok. Why is that?"

"I still don't like all of Mrs. Smith's yelling."

"Ok. Let's pretend that there's no yelling, and you can't lose your recess. Are the butterflies still there?"

Silence.

He was thinking.

"Hmm. No. I don't think they are."

"I wonder if there is a way for us to make that pretend world come true so that you can go to bed without the butterflies, get up in the morning and go to school?"

Again, Curtis hung his head and sunk into his chair. I could see he was not optimistic about our chances of making any of this come true, so I asked, "I wonder who we need to talk with about all this?"

Curtis looked up, "my parents?"

"Do they have anything to do with your butterflies?"

He hung his head again, "no." But a moment later, he shot his head up and exclaimed, "my teacher!"

"I think talking to Mrs. Smith about all this would be a great idea. And the great news is that your parents tell me that Mrs. Smith really wants to help. She said she would do almost anything to help make things better for you."

Curtis was shocked, "she said that? Really?"

"Yup. That's what I heard."

"Cool."

"Would you like it if I helped you have a conversation with her just like the one we had today?"

"Sure. That sounds good."

***

After the meeting, I asked the parents what they thought. Both were beaming with excitement when they said that they had never heard any of this information. The mom got tearful as she explained that she had never heard so much of the background behind Curtis's behaviour from him. Too often the only response she ever experienced from Curtis was verbal and physical explosive behaviour.

When I hinted that the discussion went too long (about one hour), the mom said that she could have sat and watched for four hours because she had never seen or heard Curtis be so open about what was really going on. More than once, the mom commented that she doesn't have the words and skills to have this kind of conversation with her son. My first response was to tell her she doesn't have the words or skills yet. I gave her a copy of Ross Greene's The Explosive Child and they are buying a copy of Lost at School for Curtis's teachers.

Later in the day, I asked Curtis what he thought of our meeting. He said that he liked it because he thought that he might have a chance to talk with Mrs. Smith about these problems.

For Curtis, going to school has been a problem for years. An argument could be made that focusing on the problems Curtis is having this year with Mrs. Smith has nothing to do with why this has been a problem for so long.

This line of reasoning is kind of right but mostly wrong.

It's true that Curtis did not have a problem with Mrs. Smith or her tick system in previous years (she wasn't his teacher) and yet he still had a problem with going to school. It's probably also true that, if nothing changes, Curtis will continue to have the same difficulties next year when he has a different teacher with different expectations.

The common denominators here are not his teachers. The common thread here is that Curtis is lagging skills that would allow him to more successfully navigate through his day. It's likely that he's had difficulty managing emotional response to frustration so as to think rationally for a long time. By working with him to solve both his, his parents and his teacher's unsolved problems we indirectly teach him skills. (The truth is the adults learn skills, too) So when Curtis gets a different teacher next year with a new set of expectations that might cause further problems for him, he will have a better chance of working with his teacher in a functional, rather than dysfunctional, manner.

Even if these problems are in reality no more than 1% of the real problems plaguing Curtis, but he perceives them to be 99% of his problems, then this is a critical step in making Curtis an ally in our pursuit towards collaboratively solving problems. After the meeting was over, I asked Curtis's parents which part of our meeting was more beneficial -- the part with or without Curtis -- they quickly and unanimously said that the discussion with Curtis was far more productive than the part of the meeting where Curtis was absent.

Without the child, adults can only guess as to what the child's problems really are -- but the truth is we are usually wrong. Without the child, adults can only ever unilaterally develop solutions which translates into the adult imposing their will (Plan A) on the child. If either of these methods worked, you wouldn't be reading this post right now.

***

Here's a list I find useful when doing the empathy step and collecting information step. If you look through my discussion with Curtis, I think you'll see examples where I use each ingredient:

INGREDIENTS FOR EMPATHY AND DRILLING FOR INFORMATION

• questions that focus on the who, what, where and when about the conditions of the unsolved problem

• differentiate between why the problem occurs under some circumstances and not others

• breaking down the problem into its components. For example, if it looks like the child has problems during English class, ask questions to clarify which part of English class is problematic (reading, writing, group work, individual work) If it's reading, then ask questions that clarify what part of reading (out loud, silent)

• reflective listening and clarifying statements: "How so?" "I don't understand" "I'm confused" "Can you say more about that?" "What's hard about that?"

• asking the child what s/he's thinking in the midst of the unsolved problem

• summarizing what's been learned so far

• "tabling" some concerns so as to permit considerations of others. "What if the floor wasn't dirty, could you then sit on the floor with the class?" "If we removed Elijah from group, would that solve the problem?" "Would that make it easier for you?"

Solving Problems Collaboratively in the Classroom

Here's how I used Ross Greene's Approach (Plan B) with a student.

Dylan is a very active grade 2 boy who was reading The Lorax on the iPad. Dylan can't read independently yet and that's ok. He's very young. The good news is that he sometimes still gets excited about reading with an adult. The iPad works well because it allows him some autonomy while it reads to him. Plus it's interactive which is great because it keeps Dylan engaged. (Please note that the iPad does not replace reading with an adult -- it merely supplements)

After he finished the book, I showed him how to take screen shots of his favorite parts of the book. He placed them in Keynote and, with some assistance, he wrote a couple sentences that explained what was happening in the picture.

After three pictures and three text boxes, Dylan made it clear that he was ready for a break, so I sent him for a walk down the hall. When he came back I had him choose a little journal for him to keep. I asked him to write down his name, the date and something about what he did this morning.

All of a sudden, Dylan crossed his arms, knitted his brow, hung his head and huffed. It took me all of a half second to see something was wrong. It's at this point that too many adults engage in Plan A. Plan A is where the adult places an expectation on the child and when the child doesn't comply, the adult imposes their will to make them comply.

In Dylan's case, my problem was that I wanted him to write in his journal but he wouldn't. Plan A might take any number of forms including threats, bribes, punishments, consequences and other forms of manipulation and coercion.

Plan A solves the problem, right?

Well, sort of but mostly no.

Plan A does solve a problem. Plan A is the best way to solve the adult's problem while almost always completely ignoring the child's problem. Because Plan A never bothers to engage the child, the best it can ever gain us is short-term compliance. We gain expediency and efficiency at the cost of sustainability.

This is as unacceptable as it is ineffective.

Plan B is where we engage collaboratively with the child to solve problems. Here are the steps:

1. Identify the lagging skill and unsolved problem.

2. Engage the child in an empathetic conversation in an attempt to gather information about their perspective of the problem.

3. Identify both problems (yours and theirs).

4. Invite them to come up with solutions and agree on one that is mutually satisfactory and durable.

Here's what Plan B looks like for Dylan:

After I resisted Plan A, I quickly identified Dylan's lagging skill: he has difficulty handling transitions and shifting from one task to another. The unsolved problem here is that Dylan is having difficulty starting his journal writing after reading on the iPad.

Here's how I started the conversation:

Hey Dylan, I've noticed your having difficulty starting your journal writing, what's up?

I waited.

Dylan avoided eye contact.

I waited some more.

Dylan still looked away.

I waited even more.

Then Dylan shifted in his seat and dropped his crossed arms. He wasn't avoiding me. He was thinking. It was really important that I say nothing so that he could think. Dylan then said something that made me go aha!

I'm hungry.

This aha! moment made sense. It was 20 minutes to twelve and even I was getting hungry.

There is only one person in this world who could provide me with this invaluable piece of information, and that person is Dylan. If I don't take the time and effort to engage in a conversation with him, then I guess I could hypothesize and theorize why he's having difficulty (he hates writing or me) -- or I could skip all the speculation and just ask Dylan for what's up (he's hungry).

Quick sidebar: If I speculate about what Dylan's problem is, I'm likely to unilaterally impose a solution which will likely solve my problem while ignoring his which will likely lead to more unsolved problems, leading me to impose more unilateral consequences. In other words, Plan A begets Plan A.

Once I had my aha! moment, I asked Dylan:

I wonder if there is a way for you to write in your journal without being hungry.

I waited.

He said nothing.

I waited longer.

After I watched him think in silence, Dylan said:

I can wait until lunch.

Sometimes kids are great at telling us what we want to hear. Sometimes this is true because they have grown accustomed to having their needs trumped by adults. Keeping this in mind, I decided that Dylan's suggestion was neither mutually satisfactory (I don't think he really believed he could wait) nor sustainable (I didn't really believe he could wait) so I said:

That's an idea, but are you sure you can wait? What if you got a super quick snack now and then came back and wrote in your journal?

His smile told me all I needed to know about whether this solution was mutually satisfactory. And it was proven durable when three minutes later he returned from his snack and went straight to his journal.

For those who say this sounds like too much work, I'll say this: while it's true that learning how to do Plan B takes a long time, this post took me longer to write than my actual interaction with Dylan.

Lagging Skills and Unsolved Problems

I spent the day learning about Ross Greene's approach for working with children. We talked a lot about how children will be successful when they can and it is our job to first identify the lagging skills and unsolved problems that are causing difficulty. 

One of the tools Ross Greene's approach uses is the Assessment of Lagging Skills and Unsolved Problems. Using this tool, I wrote a sample case formulation or what could be an Individual Program Plan based on Ross Greene's approach.

Sample Case Formulation

or

Individual Program Plan

A summary of some key lagging skills, perhaps those that are contributing to challenging behaviour most often or maybe those on which caregivers can most easily agree:

Nolan has difficulty managing his emotions in response to frustration so as to think rationally... isn't very good at appreciating how his behaviour is affecting others and recognizing how he's coming across... and difficulty empathizing with others, appreciating another person's perspective or point of view.

Emphasize that these lagging skills are especially problematic in the conditions (unsolved problems) in which they are demanded by the environment. Specify some of these conditions:

Nolan tends to run into difficulty when these lagging skills are demanded. So he has a lot of trouble shifting from computer time during language arts to putting the computer away and going to physical education. It's very hard for him to learn cooperatively with his classmates... he often has difficulty compromising on ideas with others without pushing his ideas on others and getting very frustrated. And then he can't figure out why others are mad at him. When playing floor hockey, Nolan has difficulty negotiating the interpretation of the rules with his peers such as offsides, goals and high sticking. Has difficulty coping and forgiving others for wronging or hurting him by accident without getting very angry.

Underscore that challenging behaviours occur in response to these unsolved problems, that the manner in which the adults are presently going about trying to solve them is making things worse and solving no problems durably, and that the unsolved problems are highly predictable:

These unsolved problems cause Nolan to become quite frustrated, and that's when he is likely to exhibit challenging behaviours, like crying, hitting, isolating himself from others and swearing. When we remind Nolan of how we expect him to act - or reprimand or punish him for not meeting those expectations - it only makes things worse... and doesn't help Nolan solve any of the problems over which he's becoming upset. Fortunately, since his unsolved problems are highly predictable, we don't need to try solving them in the heat of the moment.

Check to ensure that there is a consensus and that the case formulation (or Individual Program Plan) accurately summarizes the deliberations of the group:

Does this sound like a good summary of what we've been saying about Nolan?

Point out that the goal of intervention is to solve these problems collaboratively so they no longer precipitate challenging behaviour and so that lagging skills are taught, at least indirectly:

Our goal is to begin solving some of these problems with Nolan's help, so that he's involved in helping us understand what's getting in the way for him and he's also involved in coming up with solutions that will work for him and for us. Once the problems are solved, they won't set in motion challenging behaviour any more. And if we solve the problems collaboratively, then Nolan will start to learn some of the skills he's lacking.

***

I see all this as an important shift in mindset. It is so tempting to focus on a child's behaviour and to theorize, hypothesize and develop stories around why those behaviours are occurring, but none of this is helpful in supporting the child develop the skills they need to better navigate their day. Instead, we are far better off using our limited time, effort and resources to identify the skills children lag along with the situations and unsolved problems that are demanding these lagging skills.

Once we identify the lagging skills and unsolved problems, we jump into Ross Greene's approach for working with children.

Ross Greene is coming to Calgary

Ross Green

WHO: Ross Greene

WHAT: Collaborative Problem Solving Advanced Training

WHEN: May 9-11

WHERE: Calgary, Alberta. Executive Royal Inn.

WHY: Because children will be successful when they can, we need to move away from "doing things to" children and move towards a "working with" approach.

HOW: For more information on registration check out this page.

Here are a couple posts I've written about Ross Greene's book Lost at School:

Ross Greene's approach for working with children

Ross Greene's Lost at School

Alfie Kohn's interview with Ross Greene

Here are all of my posts on rethinking discipline.

Solving Problems Collaboratively: The Ross Greene Approach

Ross Greene's book Lost at School has played a critical role in how I frame my conversations and interactions with students who are having a hard time navigating through their day. It's important to note that this requires a shift from "doing things to" kids to "working with" kids. At best the former can get us temporary compliance while the latter can bring authentic engagement.

To do this, I find myself using Ross Greene's three steps to Ross Greene's approach for working with children:

1. Empathy
2. Identify the Problem
3. Invitation to solutions

Empathy

Children have to believe that we care about them before they will care about what we have to say, and one of the best ways to express empathy is to suspend our judgement and listen to the child. This might be as simple as asking "What's up?" While the child is offering their answer, you might find it helpful to clarify their concerns by echoing what you hear them say by saying, "I'm hearing you say..."

When an adult and a child enter into a conversation, the disparity in age by definition creates an imbalance of power. Despite conventional wisdom, this is not the time to increase your adult power; on the contrary, I've found it quite necessary to reduce my adult power and ensure that the child feels like I am not trying to enter into a power struggle by imposing my will on them.

Because I believe that children should experience their successes and failures not as reward and punishment but as information, I find it very helpful to start off my conversation with "I'm not mad..." or "You're not in trouble". Sometimes I find it helpful to add "I'm a teacher, not a punisher. I'm here to help you learn, not punish you".

Because empathy is not a word, it's a feeling, this step will require more time and effort than it takes to simply say "I care". Our best intentions are always trumped by the child's perception; that is, we often may find ourselves ready to move on to the next step before the child is convinced we are in fact empathetic.

Identify the Problem

The key to this step is understanding that there are usually two problems that need to be identified and eventually solved - one is the adult's problem and the other is the child's problem. Adults are great at identifying the problem we want to solve, but we aren't all that great at identifying the problem that concerns the child. Our problems can be obvious, but I've found that a child's problem can be quite elusive until we actually take the time and effort to engage them in a conversation about what truly is troubling them.

The child must feel like you care about solving their problem as much as you care about solving your own.

Invitations to Solutions

Adults are great at unilaterally imposing solutions in search of a problem and not so great at remembering that there are two problems that need a solution that is mutually satisfactory and durable. One way to initiate this with a child is to say, "I wonder if there's a way..."

Don't get discouraged when the first attempt at the solution fails. These things take time, effort and collaboration. Solutions can fail for a couple different reasons:

• Sometimes kids suggest unsustainable solutions. 
• Sometimes adults suggest unsustainable solutions.
• Sometimes kids feel compelled to agree to solutions that are not really satisfactory to them.
• Sometimes even good solutions need practice or minor adjustments.

For some kids, all this is totally unnecessary, but for kids who lag the necessary social, emotional and behavioral skills to get through their day without explosions, Ross Greene's approach for working with children gives them a chance.