tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post1786954106406797709..comments2024-03-15T02:09:23.712-06:00Comments on for the love of learning: Paradoxes of the Finland PhenomenonAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15047405950514440042noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-66545871179240598102012-09-13T12:46:26.583-06:002012-09-13T12:46:26.583-06:00I join the thanks for clarification re Finland'...I join the thanks for clarification re Finland's success. I'm also going to step way out on a shaky limb and suggest that among the possible reasons for the U.S.A.'s educational problem is local control/local taxes. The people that serve on school boards aren't often the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, nor are they necessarily either knowledgeable about or committed to the best educational policies for the students. "Lower taxes" is what gets politicians elected, and property taxes are what fund most school systems. Suppose our nation's schools were funded the same way its military is?agedcheddarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01398286721947332075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-38854913971368496772012-04-24T20:22:54.283-06:002012-04-24T20:22:54.283-06:00These 2 neighbor countries should work together as...These 2 neighbor countries should work together as one. They need to improve their education system for the good of their people. I hope the the reform will be rolled out as soon as possible to give the right education system to the people. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.hunterbusinessschool.edu/programs-offered/diagnostic-medical-sonographer/" rel="nofollow">diagnostic medical sonography schools</a>Sharonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13531682945524059043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-68040519352138972042012-04-19T00:41:33.988-06:002012-04-19T00:41:33.988-06:00They should solve this problem quickly or else the...They should solve this problem quickly or else the teenagers will surely revolt against them.<br /><a href="http://www.declareyourmajor.com/" rel="nofollow">how to pick a college major</a>Laszlo Irvinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16740638143008733970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-45373413993482137342012-04-13T00:38:24.653-06:002012-04-13T00:38:24.653-06:00I definitely agree, social awareness is the key an...I definitely agree, social awareness is the key and I think that the government should help with the cause as well.<br /><a href="http://www.westanks.com.au/" rel="nofollow">fuel trailers</a>Emilio.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07129460919872649733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-30773703222950246962012-02-10T14:12:48.187-07:002012-02-10T14:12:48.187-07:00Education is really key to self-worth and fulfillm...Education is really key to self-worth and fulfillment. It also plays a crucial role in character development. The efficacy of the educational system reflects what kind of future citizens we are rearing. They need to be educated with social concerns also like recession, Paxil Lawsuit and cancer as well.Paxil Lawsuithttp://www.paxilbirthdefectlaw.com/paxil-lawsuit/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-10935459272612775822012-02-09T02:16:17.204-07:002012-02-09T02:16:17.204-07:00[continued:]
The other point I would like to make...[continued:]<br /><br />The other point I would like to make is this: You may or may not be right that Norway to some extent suffers from a resource curse. However, we have taken some considerable precautions not to fall into that trap: All revenues from the oil extraction are put in a fund (I guess you could call it a Sovereign Wealth Fund), now worth the equivalent of more than 500 billion USD (yes, it is that much). The entirety of this fund is invested overseas, to prevent the money from affecting/destroying the Norwegian economy. <br /><br />Only a small part of the return of the fund is used “onshore”, i.e. in the annual state budget (approximately 21 billion USD in the 2012 budget, which amounts to ca. 10 per cent of the budget/around 5.6 per cent of annual Norwegian GDP). I am not quite sure about your percentages, but by now I guess you could use the oil fund to buy Sweden and Denmark (i.e., to run it for a year), so it far exceeds our annual GDP. <br /><br />But more to the point, I do not at this point in history find it fair to conclude that we are cursed by these riches, being as it is still a relatively small part of our onshore economy. <br /><br />And finally, a third point: Yes, you are right that we have some similarities with Finland, our neighbor in the east, and that despite this the Finns outcompete us by a far cry in e.g. the PISA tests (but absolutely not on other variables: we generally score significantly better than the Finns on e.g. the ICCS (International Civic and Citizenship Education Study) on support for democratic values and citizenship, and on more psycho-social variables like well-being among pupils, the frequency of bullying in schools, etc.).<br /><br />However, I would say that Norway is if possible even more similar to the other two Scandinavian countries, Denmark and Sweden – the real operative difference being [+/- oil]. And, on the PISA tests, the Norwegian results, and the historical trajectory of these results, are almost on par with those of Denmark and Sweden, the difference being so small that it is close to negligible, and almost always within the margin of error.<br /><br />So, my conclusion must be this: That there is an operative distinctive factor in this equation, making the Finns succeed and the other Scandinavians not that successful, that has nothing to do with oil – but probably everything with what you suggest in your post, that the Finns have funneled their resources into high-quality education for teachers, decent salaries – and yes, under a system based on “diversity, trust, respect, professionalism, equity, responsibility and collaboration”, which you so beautifully put it – and moreover been generally unconcerned with high-stakes standardized testing, something we waste a lot of energy and resources on both in Norway, and in Denmark and Sweden.<br /><br />And, by the bye, something else entirely: Did you know that Hattie might have gotten his statistics wrong? Might not change his overall results, but it is a conundrum that this have gone unnoticed for more than two years, considering that it is in the most-read publication from the world’s undisputedly best-known educational celebrity. I have written more about this here: http://sporetterspor.blogspot.com/Eivind Solfjellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15434840605417718670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-13760797177479146982012-02-09T02:14:43.549-07:002012-02-09T02:14:43.549-07:00[I'll try again:]
Hi Joe,
I can see that thi...[I'll try again:]<br /><br />Hi Joe,<br /><br />I can see that this was posted a while ago, and that my comments here might be long overdue. Still, being as I am both a Norwegian, and a student at the teacher-training program at the University of Oslo, I feel the urge to qualify some of the statements in your post, so here goes:<br /><br />As you say, we do have our own version of Teach For America/Teach First UK, namely Teach First Norway. However, from the inception in 2010, only less than twenty students annually have been admitted to this program. So to say that we have "thrown millions of dollars" at them is an exaggeration, to say the least.<br /><br />Moreover, it is also incorrect that they receive "mere weeks of training": The Norwegian TF students actually follow the exact same curriculum as any other student at the teacher-training program at the University of Oslo, including myself – which may have its faults, but which even so is what is generally recognized (and mandated) in Norway today as constituting professional teacher competency. <br /><br />That said, what is, at least to me, more than questionable (and an ironic twist to this story, considering how you develop your argument) about the Norwegian TF program is that it is actually "paid for" by Statoil, the biggest – and only really significant – oil-company in Norway. <br /><br />What Statoil has been allowed to do is the same as the universities in Norway do, and must do, anyway, namely to "top up" the government allocation to their educational programs (all student training is covered approximately 70 per cent by the state, the universities/colleges must cover the rest). <br /><br />On top of this, they have created their own follow-up program, a one-year leadership training. Thus, the state gives Statoil a (relatively) high-quality education almost for free, which the company can then supplement with their own specialization, thus getting the new employees and prospective leaders they want and need. The program is obviously popular, and the applicants are high-achieving students with Master’s degrees in the natural sciences – exactly what Statoil wants.<br /><br />This is the Teach First Norway home page, unfortunately in Norwegian only, but the Statoil name and logo are very much visible: http://www.teachfirstnorway.no/Eivind Solfjellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15434840605417718670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-50518424724985902032012-02-09T02:12:49.733-07:002012-02-09T02:12:49.733-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Eivind Solfjellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15434840605417718670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-6501726597585797462012-02-05T21:49:24.933-07:002012-02-05T21:49:24.933-07:00People in Finland should learn more about their na...People in Finland should learn more about their natural resources so that it would not be put to waste. Thanks.oil and gas traininghttp://www.oilennium.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-31979907532752184892012-01-10T10:29:55.583-07:002012-01-10T10:29:55.583-07:00McNally HS in Edmonton is one of 5 Alberta High Sc...McNally HS in Edmonton is one of 5 Alberta High Schools involved in the Alberta-Finland patnership "FinAl" (see the Winter 2011 ATA Magazine). Joe, again you've hit the mark in identifying aspects of schooling that really make a difference in student achievement; highly qualified trusted teachers, extensive use of formative assessment, broad curriculum standards and local autonomy. And every student is provided a healthy lunch, every day.<br />There is much to learn from each other in this partnership.daleskoreykonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-9698899768290925222012-01-05T11:48:37.031-07:002012-01-05T11:48:37.031-07:00Why is the American media obsessed with the Finnis...Why is the American media obsessed with the Finnish success and ignore their neighbour to the north that ranked just below Finland and on many dimensions exceeded Finland.<br />We have so much more in common with our demographics the. us is almost as diverse as canada (over 50% of Canadians living in Toronto were not born in Canada and 50% do not speak english or French as their first language) we share so much more yet our school achievement is so much greater and a little known feature of the PISA is that the gap in achievement between the advantaged and disadvantage is the narrowest in Canada of any nation in the world exceeding Finland . Our teaching faculties attract applicants from the top third of college grads while US and U K draw their teachers from the bottom third. Of the top countries the most common feature is that we all have very strong teacher unions . There is a correlation between strong unions and student achievement . As a former superintendent I have been anti union for most of my career<br />Jdiakiw@edu.yorku.caAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-74758799193273214442012-01-05T11:46:57.926-07:002012-01-05T11:46:57.926-07:00Why is the American media obsessed with the Finnis...Why is the American media obsessed with the Finnish success and ignore their neighbour to the north that ranked just below Finland and on many dimensions exceeded Finland.<br />We have so much more in common with our demographics the. us is almost as diverse as canada (over 50% of Canadians living in Toronto were not born in Canada and 50% do not speak english or French as their first language) we share so much more yet our school achievement is so much greater and a little known feature of the PISA is that the gap in achievement between the advantaged and disadvantage is the narrowest in Canada of any nation in the world exceeding Finland . Our teaching faculties attract applicants from the top third of college grads while US and U K draw their teachers from the bottom third. Of the top countries the most common feature is that we all have very strong teacher unions . There is a correlation between strong unions and student achievement . As a former superintendent I have been anti union for most of my career<br />Jdiakiw@edu.yorku.caAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-56301413817331778012011-12-20T06:20:49.384-07:002011-12-20T06:20:49.384-07:00Don't forget Singapore.Don't forget Singapore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-25316030284841196172011-12-19T02:00:32.817-07:002011-12-19T02:00:32.817-07:00Interesting post. Education & learning are mos...Interesting post. Education & learning are most important sectors. There must be proper guidelines in these fields & best policies must be regulated for this upliftment.Learn Englishhttp://www.telemartnetwork.com/Educational/45-English-Guru.phpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-55173319408228992042011-12-01T01:08:32.438-07:002011-12-01T01:08:32.438-07:00@mmeveilleux:
Nowadays there are Bachelor's de...@mmeveilleux:<br />Nowadays there are Bachelor's degrees in Finland due to the Bologna Process, though it's mostly just for standardization across countries. Most people still enroll for a double degree, bachelor's + master's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-75377518929208112122011-11-05T09:55:17.710-06:002011-11-05T09:55:17.710-06:00Interesting post with a lot of food for thought. A...Interesting post with a lot of food for thought. As educators, we can learn from the positives as well as the negatives and challenge the status quo. Thank you!cattywhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14901815028125285208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-77472201141006506292011-11-05T09:54:39.902-06:002011-11-05T09:54:39.902-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.cattywhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14901815028125285208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-63425733863004456162011-11-05T09:53:39.401-06:002011-11-05T09:53:39.401-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.cattywhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14901815028125285208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-31234894257920549622011-11-02T10:00:06.427-06:002011-11-02T10:00:06.427-06:00I am very concerned about education in the U.S. ha...I am very concerned about education in the U.S. have started a blog non-professional blog to try to get nationwide dialogue. One of my posts will deal with Finland's success and what we can learn from them. I enjoyed your post. Check mine daily at<br /><br />http://redflageducation.blogspot.com/Nancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02956695464533335482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-33940053342358237312011-10-27T18:06:17.838-06:002011-10-27T18:06:17.838-06:00Hi Joe,
I really enjoyed reading this post especi...Hi Joe,<br /><br />I really enjoyed reading this post especially the way you set it up in terms of paradoxes. I am of Finnish heritage myself. <br /><br />One possible reason for Finland's high literacy rate (at least for decoding) may be that the writing system is entirely phonetic. If you can sound out your alphabet, you can more or less read. There are few, if any, silent letters. Of course, decoding is only one aspect of literacy! <br /><br />Another thing I wanted to mention is that there is no such thing as a Bachelor's degree in Finland. My sister had a Bachelor's degree when she went to Finland but then had to start from scratch to do her Master's degree. Of course there are all kinds of certificate and diploma programs. <br /><br />Great post!<br />@mmeveilleuxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-4773132373300198192011-10-13T03:21:44.412-06:002011-10-13T03:21:44.412-06:00Excellent point, Joe! We certainly should take a l...Excellent point, Joe! We certainly should take a leaf out of the Finn's book! <br /><br />Justine, MelbourneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-20410373153002382902011-10-10T04:19:58.739-06:002011-10-10T04:19:58.739-06:00Hi Joe,
Found your comparison really interesting ...Hi Joe,<br /><br />Found your comparison really interesting and the implications illuminating. Have just posted a link to it on the <a href="http://www.facebook.com/TeachingEnglish.BritishCouncil/posts/260259624011238" rel="nofollow">TeachingEnglish facebook page</a> if you'd like to check there for comments.<br /><br />Please feel free to post on the page whenever you have anything you'd like to share.<br /><br />Best,Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14328247226446483683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-29323056031783873612011-10-08T13:16:36.966-06:002011-10-08T13:16:36.966-06:00WRT the cheap shot at Finnish suicide rates, argua...WRT the cheap shot at Finnish suicide rates, arguably they are the results of Finnish Teens being more educated than their more parochial (in the precise and literal meaning of the term) parents, grand parents and close parental relations than in other countries, and feeling more pressure from that fact. I could cite personal histories, but choose not to. There is a real generational clash though, due to dissimilarities in education. That said, there has to be some genetic component to our life-non-affirming nature, which escapes me. I don't think you can find a source for it from anything we as a society do, though.Cimon Avarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02415424790809611436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-53440070882058025472011-10-08T09:05:35.440-06:002011-10-08T09:05:35.440-06:00Does anyone else find it interesting that they are...Does anyone else find it interesting that they are making the case against standardized testing by citing standardized testing results (PISA).Ward Familyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05641196362988436863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2707703066300530859.post-85528125223339143432011-10-07T23:12:33.415-06:002011-10-07T23:12:33.415-06:00Hello Joe, another interesting post, thanks for ta...Hello Joe, another interesting post, thanks for taking the time to share!<br /><br />Comparing the Finnish system with those of their nearest neighbors is interesting, and the Danish comparisons with the AB situation is especially interesting. I've heard those comparisons before, when comparing natural resource royalty rates, as I believe Denmark's were quite higher.<br /><br />What is interesting to me as I reflect on your post is the fact that while there may be many similarities between Alberta and Denmark, our results on international assessments appear quite dissimilar. We have larger class sizes, standardized tests, challenges in some areas of the province to find enough teachers, a structured system of accountability with the APORI measures, and yet our students do very well on international assessments.<br /><br />What do you think the reasons are for that? <br /><br />Quite often we focus our reform conversations on areas of relative weakness with our system, and talk about trying to attend to those. I wonder if our efforts might be better served by instead trying to further enhance our relative strengths, that are already contributing to our success, in order to improve even more.Alexander (Sandy) McDonaldhttp://over40andstillinschool.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com